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Conversations: 1950
November 22, 1950 MEMORANDUM FOR THE FILE SUBJECT: Conversation with Dr. Detlev W. Bronk Following our-brief conversation at the Pentagon last week, incident to Dr. Karl Compton's conference here, I called on Dr. Bronk at his offices at the National Academy of Science this morning, he having expressed a desire for a lengthier discussion. We spent a couple of hours together. Dr. Bronk, in addition to being President of Johns Hopkins University, has been President of the National Academy since the Spring of 1950 when he was elected for a four-year term. Previously he was President of the closely related National Research Council. Traditionally Presidents of the National Academy are not reelected although an exception was made during the War. There are about 450 members of the National Academy. The National Research Council is composed of delegates from each of the significant learned societies, specialized engineering societies, etc., in the United States. Dr. Bronk has also recently become a Director of the Sloan-Kettering Institute of New York City. We talked principally about the National Science Foundation, about the OSRD function, about the concept of a Scientific Advisor to the President, and about the functions and functioning of the National Academy of Sciences and the National Research Council. As to the National Science Foundation, Dr. Bronk had the idea quite definitely that it should get under way slowly after careful study of the fields of activity. We talked about the ideas of preliminary study of what is being done and what should be done in promotion of basic scientific research and in a fellowship program etc., and he was fully in accord with the concept of careful study before action. He thought that only small amounts of funds should be expended and that they should be expanded slowly. He said that he was pleased, rather than the contrary, that only about $225,000 had been appropriated for the NSF in its first year. We did not talk in specific terms as to dollar amounts for its second year, that is Fiscal '52, but when I mentioned that some $10,000,000 had been tentatively talked about in the Bureau of the Budget he indicated that he thought that was quite high. He has already spoken with three or four members of the NSF Board with the idea of having some small group at any rate which will have common ideas and provide leadership for the initial meeting which is scheduled for December 12. . . He asked whether I thought that the NSF should get into the social sciences as well as the natural sciences. We talked at some length about his feeling that it very definitely should do so. He has been much interested for some time in the inter-relationship between the social and natural science and feels that much useful work can be done here. I asked him about the work to be done by the Ford Foundation in this field and mentioned that according to hearsay the Ford Foundation will have some $50,000,000 a year to spend. He was generally aware of this and I noted that he had on his desk the preliminary study report which the Ford Foundation published not long ago. He did not express any preferences as to chairmanship or vice-chairmanship or directorship of the NSF, and I did not press him for his views on this. He did, however, mention and asked me whether I had heard about the ex-senator, who has been mentioned a possible designee for the directorship.[1] He said he did not know him personally and did not doubt that he was a man of distinction and competence but felt that he was not qualified for this particular position. It was interesting to me that he had heard of this, and it was quite evident that he would resent the imposition of such an appointment over the contrary recommendations of the Board, if there should be such. We talked a bit about the way the NSF might get under way and about the possibility of preparing carefully thought out factual and opinionated reports covering the work now being done by Government, industry, and the universities in the support of basic scientific research, and similar study reports on fellowship programs now in existence. He likewise mentioned the desirability of preparing similar study reports of the social sciences which would show what is now being done and what might ideally be done and indicate possible divisions of responsibility between NSF and other Government-supported work and privately supported work by Ford Foundation and others. The thought was expressed that these study reports might be published and would be very useful to the community at large in guiding private agencies as well as serving primary purpose of furnishing the basis for NSF policy for its Board. Preparing these reports the Board of the NSF and particularly its committees could furnish excellent guidance to the staff in the fields of their special knowledge and interest. This would also give the Board members something to do during the study period. As to a latter-day OSRD, he felt definitely there should not be any such agency created at this time. As to whether one should ultimately become desirable, that is to say in the event of war, he was inclined at first to the contrary. His feeling was that with the greatly improved status of civilian scientists in military work, and the greatly increased amount of such work being done on the one hand in the Department of Defense and on the other in the AEC and other such agencies, that an outside civilian group would not be needed. He based this feeling on the hope that the National Academy of Sciences would take a very effective part in giving guidance to the military. In part, he reflected his objectives of revitalizing the National Academy as an active body. However, no one else to whom I have spoken has given any indication thinking that the National Academy could actively fulfill such a role. Incidentally, Dr. Bronk mentioned that he is in Washington about three days a week apparently primarily on National Academy matters. He sees Bill Webster from time to time and also Admiral Solberg of ONR, perhaps once a month or something such, and is quite hopeful about the influential possibilities of the National Academy and its committees. In this he includes the National Research Council of course. However, when I asked him what he thought about the idea of creating a Scientific Advisor to the President with the functions I have outlined elsewhere, that is, (a) keeping fully informed on all matters of scientific research and development activities of a military character in all Government agencies so engaged; and (b) constituting the nucleus of an OSRD ready to call it into being immediately should the need arise, he expressed very considerable enthusiasm. The creation of such a post interested him very much it was evident. We talked about several individuals who would not have the qualifications necessary for the post, primarily because they had in the past in being extremely effective--that is in OSRD particularly--created enemies either within the military or within scientific groups or both. And hence, although they are extremely competent and would be very useful in an emergency, they would not be the man to be the Scientific Advisor. He did not think that the President of the National Academy, considering this in abstract, would be too occupied or in any other way disqualified for holding this post. In fact, he thought there was a logical relationship which might prove quite useful all around. He agreed that the Chairman of the NSF should not occupy this post on the grounds that the NSF should have absolutely nothing to do with matters of a military character. This latter point should have been stressed above in the discussion of National Science Foundation. He, as well as everyone with whom I have spoken, was crystal clear about this. That is, that the NSF should confine its activities entirely to non-military matters, that it was in this sphere that the hopes of the scientific community for the Foundation lay, and that it could be of very little value in directly military affairs but could be very valuable, especially over a period of years in non-military matters although the research discoveries might ultimately have military uses. Of course in time of war things might be different. William T. Golden ____________________________ |
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