Conversations: 1951

March 1, 1951

MEMORANDUM FOR THE FILE

SUBJECT: Conversation with Dr. Vannevar Bush

I spent an hour and a half with Dr. Bush this afternoon. He asked me to post him about the National Science Foundation’s status, which I did, including a discussion of certain of the names.

I told him that I wanted to discuss with him two principal matters, namely, the Research and Development Board and the Advisory Committee on Defense Scientific Research. He said that Clay and Wilson had spoken to him once apparently, about the latter. He said that he liked the idea -- the committee form and the full-time chairman -- and that it was far better than a single scientific adviser. He showed real enthusiasm for this arrangement, which was consistent with his previous remarks to me. He said that the chairman should not be a scientist, but should be somebody with engineering background in an industrial field, since he regards the principal mission of the committee to be to accelerate the transition from completed development into actual production and to the battlefield. This is the point which he had mentioned before, though not in this connection, and he spoke about it recurrently and intensively throughout our discussion. It is evident that it is his current most active idea in the Government-military field. As to the other functions of the committee which I had discussed with him previously and which, of course, others had discussed with him, such as representation of the scientific community, he said he didn’t care what the scientists thought; that they didn't need to be represented -- it wouldn’t do any harm -- but the problem now is not one of science. It is clear that, at any rate, that is not in the forefront of his mind at the moment. He said, oh, yes, he'd have a few scientists on the committee. To reiterate, he said that the chairman should not be a scientist and should not be somebody who came out of an industry where there could be long transition between development and production. He mentioned four-four-wheel brakes as an illustration, saying we should have had them in commercial use half a dozen years sooner than we did but the automobile companies are too cautious and too slow.

Referring again to the Advisory Committee on Defense Scientific Research I asked his views about a half-time chairman with a full time executive secretary or deputy chairman such as [Lawrence] Hafstad [Atomic Energy Commission] -- this in the event that an appropriate full-time chairman were not available. He said, very good; in fact, I would make Hafstad the chairman. I asked what about that industrial experience you spoke of as a requisite for the chairman? To which he replied by saying that Hafstad’s experience in administration as assistant to [Merle] Tuve on V.T. fuses during the war at the Applied Physics Lab would count for that.

He talked at considerable length on various aspects about organizational matters in the Navy Department and in the Army Department and, to a lesser extent, in the Air Force. He returned to these matters and, as I said, did the greatest part of the talking, pointing out how he would do things if he were Secretary, etc.

I mentioned to him that Gen. [L.E.] Simon [Bureau of Ordanance, U.S. Army] yesterday had brought up the matter of the Beano grenade which he had first mentioned to me when I talked with him back in October, as I recall it, and he seemed quite pleased about this and said, yes, it had been dead ever since the OSRD days until he had revived the matter recently. He referred to the impending creation of a Scientific Advisory Committee to the Chief of Ordnance, which Simon had also mentioned to me yesterday. He said he would not serve on this committee or on any committee, and he told me clearly and explicitly that this refusal to serve would also apply to the Advisory Committee on Defense Scientific Research. He said he could get all the information he wanted anyway and that he preferred to operate from outside. When I was leaving he asked me to please be sure to keep him posted on all developments .

He was recently back from Florida and seemed to be in vigorous good health and was most cordial and expansive.

William T. Golden